Forward Arrows & Forward Runs

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Shiny
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Forward Arrows & Forward Runs

Post by Shiny »

I've taken a bit of a break of late but have been pondering a question and would like your input...

Is it counter productive for a player to have a forward run arrow plus the forward runs instruction? Would it not make more sense to have one or the other?

For example with a ML using a forward arrow to AML would it be better to take off forward runs but use player specific instructions like run with ball, cross ball etc depending on the players stats?

My thinking is that forward arrow and forward run makes the player too aggressive in an attacking sense and leaves them out of position defensively?

Hopefully this make sense? πŸ˜‰
MadScientist
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Forward Arrows & Forward Runs

Post by MadScientist »

Shiny wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 6:25 pm I've taken a bit of a break of late but have been pondering a question and would like your input...

Is it counter productive for a player to have a forward run arrow plus the forward runs instruction? Would it not make more sense to have one or the other?

For example with a ML using a forward arrow to AML would it be better to take off forward runs but use player specific instructions like run with ball, cross ball etc depending on the players stats?

My thinking is that forward arrow and forward run makes the player too aggressive in an attacking sense and leaves them out of position defensively?

Hopefully this make sense? πŸ˜‰
it depends on what you want.

Forward runs doesnt change the tactical role of the player (just makes him run forward when your team has the ball), so adding a forward runs instruction doesnt increase the penalty to his tactical atts. ML with forward runs still behaves tactically as a ML when your team has the ball.

Arrow changes the tactical role of the player to the position the arrow is pointing to, when your team has the ball, so if he isnt good for that position, he gets a penalty to his tactical atts. ML with arrow to AML will behave tactically as a AML when your team has the ball.
Shiny
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Forward Arrows & Forward Runs

Post by Shiny »

MadScientist wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 8:01 pm
Shiny wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 6:25 pm I've taken a bit of a break of late but have been pondering a question and would like your input...

Is it counter productive for a player to have a forward run arrow plus the forward runs instruction? Would it not make more sense to have one or the other?

For example with a ML using a forward arrow to AML would it be better to take off forward runs but use player specific instructions like run with ball, cross ball etc depending on the players stats?

My thinking is that forward arrow and forward run makes the player too aggressive in an attacking sense and leaves them out of position defensively?

Hopefully this make sense? πŸ˜‰
it depends on what you want.

Forward runs doesnt change the tactical role of the player (just makes him run forward when your team has the ball), so adding a forward runs instruction doesnt increase the penalty to his tactical atts. ML with forward runs still behaves tactically as a ML when your team has the ball.

Arrow changes the tactical role of the player to the position the arrow is pointing to, when your team has the ball, so if he isnt good for that position, he gets a penalty to his tactical atts. ML with arrow to AML will behave tactically as a AML when your team has the ball.
Thanks! I confess I dont understand all the little details like position penalties. So, are forward runs a safer option to keep tactical shape stability over arrows?
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Forward Arrows & Forward Runs

Post by leovii »

Here is a basic example - A centre midfielder who is only an MC (who can't play any other position) but has decent attacking attributes would probably get better average ratings in a 4-4-2 with no arrow but set to forward runs he will naturally play MC without any match engine penalties or lose defensive shape from the arrow movement. So say your playing a flat 4-4-2 your MC here will be better balanced defensively and offensively without an arrow because he can't naturally play dmc or amc or drifting wide with an arrow but say this MC has such great finishing, heading etc you might want him in the box or arrow up to join attacks more which should get him more goals on average with an arrow up but obviously the downside is you will lose defensive solidity by doing this and risk more counters this is where it gets a bit deeper to calculate.

Some players are so well rounded or can be so dominant in matches due to attribute sets or hidden ability or mentals that this MC could do defensive jobs as well such as man marking or zonal and not lose an attacking edge with forward runs or arrows up or both. It's getting to know your players what they can and can't do which you can base your decision on in terms of arrows, forward runs or other instructions. Say this MC can also play AMC as well having an arrow up but no forward runs could see him nicely in the hole for through balls or dribbles but doesn't get such a big defensive penalty because he can naturally play mc and amc If he has the atribute sets to do so. So the arrow up or forward runs usually depends on what is best balanced for the team and certain players and tactical shape. If in a 4-4-2 for instance as used above if you have 2 great attacking flat MC's you could have them both with arrow up you would score lots of goals from crosses or support play and overloads but you would run much greater risks of getting countered more fequently by the opposition due to minimal cover defensively as too mnay of your mids have joined the attacking overload.
Asthereal
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Forward Arrows & Forward Runs

Post by Asthereal »

I use DMCs with an arrow forward but no forward runs all the time. At first it felt weird because the forward runs and the arrow forward seem to complement eachother, but the thing is: I need my DMCs to move up the field a bit when I have the ball, but I need them to do so cautiously, so I don't get caught in counterattacks when we lose the ball again.

So in addition to what was mentioned earlier, you need to consider what you want your guy to do.
1) Do you want him to join the attack and not have to defend when your team loses the ball again? Then use both.
2) Do you need your guy to move up, but not too far and stay a bit back as part of the reserve defence in case your team loses the ball? Only an arrow forward but no forward runs.
3) Does your guy not have the positional prowess for the position in front of him, but you do want him to move up and join the attack? No arrow but forward runs: yes.
4) Does your guy not have the positional prowess for the position in front of him, and you need him to stay back for reserve defence? No arrow and no forward runs.
Shiny
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Forward Arrows & Forward Runs

Post by Shiny »

Asthereal wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 12:57 pm I use DMCs with an arrow forward but no forward runs all the time. At first it felt weird because the forward runs and the arrow forward seem to complement eachother, but the thing is: I need my DMCs to move up the field a bit when I have the ball, but I need them to do so cautiously, so I don't get caught in counterattacks when we lose the ball again.

So in addition to what was mentioned earlier, you need to consider what you want your guy to do.
1) Do you want him to join the attack and not have to defend when your team loses the ball again? Then use both.
2) Do you need your guy to move up, but not too far and stay a bit back as part of the reserve defence in case your team loses the ball? Only an arrow forward but no forward runs.
3) Does your guy not have the positional prowess for the position in front of him, but you do want him to move up and join the attack? No arrow but forward runs: yes.
4) Does your guy not have the positional prowess for the position in front of him, and you need him to stay back for reserve defence? No arrow and no forward runs.
I hadn't thought of this. The idea of having a dmc pushing up to mc when attacking is a idea I had thought of but was concerned it would compromise the defensive stability but if they aren't making forward runs then that makes sense. Thanks
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