Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

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nunopm
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by nunopm »

As I mentioned, the great Zidane is also in this database with the same age, both born in 1972, so if possible, I would really like you to include Rui Costa too :P
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Cam F »

nunu wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 7:37 pm Hello
First of all, am amazed with the dedication to this project. Second, I started in East Germany (Karl-Marx-Stadt), but strangely (or not), there's no Stadium. How it works in terms of attendances (plus gates revenues) ??
Btw, I search for more and found out BSG Chemie Leipzig.

To be honest, dunno if is a tiny flaw, or purposeful due to lack of data, since there's below divisional clubs that might be trully hard to find additional information.
Keep up the hard work of love for this great game.

All the best
We have more been concentrating on getting players in tbh, which is a humongous arduous task.

We have over 40k we have put in from scratch.

It is thoroughly playable but not perfect.

Things like that are fab and thanks for pointing out. It’s more surprising they don’t have a stadium, there shouldn’t be many without stadiums but it was a nation we brought back to life so that will likely be it.

I would say it’s certainty Rui Costa goes in. He certainly meets my criteria for a uber legend.

We don’t want to have many age 12 but they would only be in with future transfers which only work if all nations are selected. All nations isn’t a problem as all nations together have been thoroughly tested and work.
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Ravanelli »

Fact is that a lot of all time greats and golden ball winners were born in that crazy year 1972... Zidane, Rui Costa, Figo, Rivaldo, Thuram, Nedved, McManaman. Where do we draw the line indeed:)?

And Cam, I wasn't questioning McCoist, of course he's an uberlegend ;). Was just suprised that he hadn't PA set - because now he can also turn out worse than he was IRL. And for the other changes: I hadn't the most recent version of the DB, sorry, thanks that you implemented them!
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Cam F »

V335C-I have DB

Checks:
- 410 configs
- Bearzot, Bingham, Mike England are in the right place.
- All remaining East German league teams in divisions have stadiums, not done outwith
- Rui Costa & Poborsky added with future transfers
- Ravanelli's new advice implemented.

Keep it up Ravanelli, you are a great inspiration to me personally to keep going when you pop up with goldust information.

Don't have a problem with those suggestions either but it is a slippery slope but then there is only 3 to 5 of us who are involved in updating this if we are honest and that's 3 of them all seem to agree on such 'uber' legends being added.

I have also asked on a The History of the Highland Football League Facebook page to see if they can help with 84/85 data so fingers crossed on that.
Last edited by Cam F on Wed Apr 03, 2024 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Alex1010 »

Concerning Rui Costa, his Future Transfer to Benfica should be dated 01/07/1990 as he started his professional career in the 1990-91 season(although on loan at Fafe).
Furthermore, players who are put into the database so young should have Current ability, Home reputation, Current reputation and World reputation set to 1, otherwise they are already too strong as soon as they start their professional career.
Zidane, for example, is already too strong at 16 years old with the current database (Current ability 120 at 12 years old), while in real life in his first 2 seasons as a professional he played very little in the first team.
The important thing is to have the correct attributes and the correct potential ability to retrace a career similar to what it was in real life
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Cam F »

The reputation at 12 of 120 doesn't matter, they won't play until they sign, it's more for when they eventually sign, if they were 1 they would be crap at 12 and crap their whole career.

I know this from editing, when i put them as 35 ca/cr/hr at 15 they never developed, it's only when i did 95 db and thought of idea of future transfers until they started and could put them in as they started in the actual cm games they developed as expected.

It's a fine balance, do we want them in or not, at 120 they shouldn't be getting picked but on fringes of such a big club, could move transfer it to 89 or 90 just don't want them not training and developing forever.

He was playing for Benfica B i presume or defo under 19s in 88 - https://www.playmakerstats.com/team/ben ... oca_id=118
Last edited by Cam F on Wed Apr 03, 2024 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Alex1010 »

Cam I tried to do some simulations with Zidane at 1 Current Ability and when he starts his career he is less strong than when he was at 120.
120 compared to 1 has a significant impact when they start as professionals.
Obviously I tried the same thing with Rui Costa.
But both become great champions as their careers progress (personally I put potential ability 199 for Zidane and 195 for Rui Costa, but obviously this is my personal consideration), with a path very similar to what it was in their real life.
In any case, even using 1, they are still a little stronger at the beginning of their career than they actually were, but it takes them longer to become high-level players.
Otherwise with 120 starting ability at 20 years old they're already in the national team.
It's only a small difference created, but in my opinion it makes the real development of a footballer's career better
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Cam F »

Rui Costa made his international debut 2 days after his 21st birthday so that is almost spot on.

French league reps across the leagues haven't been done yet, they are mostly stubs so again likely once done he should be on track to make his debut at 22 or sooner as in real life.
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Alex1010 »

Ok, but if you put Rui Costa with current ability 120 and make him start contract in 1988, you'll find him in the national team before the age of 20 for sure.
Instead it will take him longer to become a starter for Benfica and in the national team if he starts with Current Ability 1.
But he will then become a champion even starting from 1 if his potential ability is high and the attributes are also high.
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Ravanelli »

Yeah, same with Roy Keane, already one of the best Irish players in the game at age 12:). Think letting those very young ones start with very very low CA is indeed better/safer.

Found this site by the way: https://www.roiblog.jp/en/besteleven1972, can help to judge who is a real legend and not;). Found the selection (he also made them for other years) quite accurate. Most guys from the 1970 and 1971 selections are already in the DB. It's up to the three people who are working on it of course, but my opinion is that we should be careful, otherwise we will end up with adding Messi age -3 to the DB :D. And Cam, I saw you (probably accidently) put future transfer of Poborsky to 01.07.1984. His first season IRL was 1991-92, but that's really late of course, suggest we just take 1988 or 1989 for his future transfer, so that he enters first team as a 16-17 year old.

About some youngsters position and managers to add:

Antonio Conte was DMRC (but his att midfielder may be upped to 14, was very versatile and certainly under Lippi he played always on the right flank)
Jörg Heinrich was great wing back and also defensive midfielder: D/DM LC
Sinisa Mihajlovic evolved to a defender later in his career, should we reflect that or do we keep the position they mostly played in the eighties, which was indeed midfield in his case?
Leonardo (Araujo) was AM/FLC. He also played as a wingback at some points in his career, so would keep that position, but the attacking positions should absolutely be added.
Luigi Garzya was DRLC in the orginal game I remember.
Gianluca Festa same.
Robert Jarni also played AML in his career, can do the whole left flank, so not only DL. His wingback position should also at least be 16.
Bjarne Goldbaek was AMC and even AMRC I think, should check original DB.
Massimo Rastelli was FRC
Slavisa Jokanovic was DMC
Vincenzo Montefusco (already in DB) is manager of Cosenza
Franco Fontana (already in DB) is manager of Reggiana
Luigi Mascalaito (ITA, 08.12.1940) is manager of Modena
Andrea Valdinoci (ITA, 29.09.1945) is manager of Legnano
Ezio Volpi (ITA, no DoB) is manager of Asti
Mario Facco (ITA, 23.01.1946) is manager of Barletta
Amilcare Ferretti (ITA, 25.06.1935) is manager of Casarano
Gastone Bean (ITA,11.08.1936) is manager of Casertana
Francisco Lojacono (ARG, 11.12.1935) is manager of Akragas
Mario Russo (already in DB) is manager of Monopoli
Ernesto Villa (ITA, no DoB) is manager of Pavia
Bernardino Sciolli (ITA, no DoB) is manager of Sanremese

That should cover first three divisions of Italy, only Francavilla and Rondinella really can't find the manager.
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by SteveHarle »

I know I'm outnumbered here but really not a fan of this. Anything past 68(age 16) or at a push 69 (age 15) should be a no in my opinion, but that is just my view :)

Point of a DB in this era is to focus on this era... you want 90's legends play a 90's DB or people just use/sign the same players on every database, don't then get to explore the players people have spent hours and hours researching and creating.

Each to their own though and i'm talking like I ever get a chance to play these databases i'm always editing :lol:
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Cam F »

Oppsies about Poborsky.

I am still 50/50 on youngsters.

I like the idea of it but unless it can be replicated like real life maybe just mass delete the less than 10 of them.

I haven’t been creating players above born 68 but see some others have been sneaking them in.

I would rather find the Hugo Sottils of this parallel universe than add in kids not age of first team football.

It’s finding the old legends I hadn’t or had heard of still about or players only just retired and recreating I get a buzz out of.

Also I want to protect the integrity of the DB.

Literally thousands of hours of dedication and work from a hardy bunch of us have done for nearly a year.

It has been like a part time job for me outwith my family and fitness dedication. Spend so much time on this a week it is unreal.
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Ravanelli »

I agree with Steve. Think 01.01.1970 is a great and symbolic cut off. Only players born in the sixties and before (always loved the players born in the sixties in the original game, always bought them because they were on the verge of retiring, great to have them in their prime now). And like Steve said: the nineties legends are there in other DB's. And like Cam said: nicer to discover hidden gems like Sottil.

@Cam, I checked with CM Scout: there litteraly 100s of players sneaked in with DoB above 1969... From all time legends like Zidane and Cafu to semi legends like Henrik Larsson to more ordinary players like Johan Mjallby or even almost nobody's like Michele Serena. Of course I can still mass delete those hundreds of players but feels a bit stupid in a 1984 DB:(. But it's the decision of those who work on it.

It think the difference lays in if your aim is that when your save game hits 2001 you end up in a game that is exactly like the ODB. In that case of course you want the youngsters and everybody in the DB and them to develop exactly like IRL. For me it's the opposite, I want the game to be different when I hit 2001 and play with a 34 year old Baggio and 32 year old Casiraghi and a 21 year old regen in the national team. That's what I don't like about nineties DB, there not different enough from the original game, you only have 4-7 seasons with old legends and that's it. While this 1984 is really amazing, you all have them in their prime and for 10-15 years and end up in a different universe in 2001, love it. But of course I also understand the people who want real players as long as possible and therefore want to implement the next generations as really young kids.
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Cam F »

Oooo, i like the symbolic cut off date!

I would still be a giant hypocrite as i want Alan Shearer and Zidane in the DB :lol: Shoot me now.

Shearer alays develops as expected as is just off the cut of 1.1.70

Btw already had some great response on highland teams in 84/85! Quite exciting tbh.

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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Ravanelli »

I totally understand it Cam, everybody has his absolute favourite players, would love to insert my all time favourite player Alessandro Del Piero (1974) too, but I'll be strong:p. And Shearer in particular I understand, because he was more a 90's man, in the original DB he was past his prime so has a retro feeling about him. Love Zidane, but with him I don't have that feeling because he is really really an original DB guy for me. He was in his prime at teh time and one of the best players in the game, his presence would give me too much 01/02 feeling and that's not what I want with this DB:).

But like you suggest, there should be like max 10 players born after 1970, so that people can delete them manually if they don't want this. If people want to play with the brothers De Boers, Litmanen, Larsson, Nedved, then just play the normal database I would say :D :D
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by SteveHarle »

We have plenty of 80s legends plus those recently retired who have been added so you are getting those regens appearing soon after the game starts, I'll stick to what I know... Glenn Hoddle and John Barnes.

They will retire early 90's and then you have your regens... which should be the equivalent to a nice Rui Costa and Luis Figo - no need to create kids and stick in future transfers, you have like-for-like players who will appear in the 90's when your game gets that far. :)
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Cam F »

We have George Best, Johann Cruff, Franz Beckenbaur, Gerd Muller and Kevin Keegan regens within first season.

Think they top anyone we have talked of with exception of Zidane.
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Alex1010 »

A possible solution is to put players born after 01.01.1970 with the current ability equal to 1 and the potential ability that is considered correct.
And put the future transfer of the team chosen in his debut season as a professional
Personally I think it's amazing to put future champions in the database as well
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Ravanelli »

Yeah, maybe we should really clean sweep the DB from everybody after 1970 to keep it's original goal... (except for Shearer and Zidane, as Cam has put such a massive effort in this DB he deserves his favourite players:)). Like I said: if you want to play with the likes of Figo and Rui Costa, play the original DB, they are only 29 years old there and have at least 5 great seasons in them. (And if you want more, take the great 1993 DB from Cam). This DB should indeed focus on 80's and early 90's legends. Maradona, Van Basten, Matthäus, Klinsmann, Hoddle, such a great DB.
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Ravanelli »

Found the two missing managers to complete Italian first three tiers. Will later start searching for Serie C2 managers.

Enzo Robotti (ITA, 13.06.1935) is manager of Rondinella.
Lamberto Leonardi (ITA, 08.081939) is manager of Francavilla.

Also finally found the missing Belgian First Division managers thanks to a panini sticker album :D (will later check if there are missing players in the album and complete managers for second division).

Johan Vermeersch (BEL, 10.11.1951): manager of Racing Jet
Leon Nollet (BEL, 17.04.1932): manager of Sint-Niklaas
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by nunopm »

Hey guys,
I agree with everything that was said here, it's strange to be putting 12-year-old kids in the db... however, I only asked for Rui Costa because in addition to being a great player, he is the current president of my Benfica and So here's my thank you very much for accepting my request.
You are extraordinary!
Thank you very much!
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Cam F »

V335D:

Checks:
- 410 configs
- Bearzot, Bingham, Mike England are in the right place.
- Downgraded Zidane/Rui Costa to 100. Fixed Poborsky's transfer date
- Did all Ravanelli's fab manager & player work, where i didn't agree on things i put position as 14.
- Added Nairn County & Fraserburgh players been told about.
Last edited by Cam F on Thu Apr 04, 2024 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Alex1010 »

There is a player who, in my opinion, absolutely needs to be improved: Pietro Paolo Virdis.
Milan's top scorer for 4 consecutive seasons and Serie A top scorer 1986–87.
Here are my suggestions:

CURRENT ABILITY 155
POTENTIAL ABILITY 172

RIGHT SIDE 10
LEFT SIDE 15
CENTRAL 20

ATT MIDFIELDER 10
ATTACKER 20
FREE ROLE 15

ACCELERATION 18
AGGRESSION 12
AGILITY 13
ANTICIPATION 17
BALANCE 14
BRAVERY 10
CONSISTENCY 20
CORNERS 12
CROSSING 10
DECISIONS 15
DIRTINESS 3
DRIBBLING 14
FINISHING 16
FLAIR 17
FREE KICKS 4
HANDLING 1
HEADING 19
IMPORTANT MATCHES 15
INJURY PRONENESS 6
JUMPING 18
LEADERSHIP 11
LEFT FOOT 1
LONG SHOTS 17
MARKING 1
MOVEMENT 18
NATURAL FITNESS 15
ONE ON ONES 1
PACE 15
PASSING 9
PENALTIES 16
POSITIONING 1
REFLEXES 1
RIGHT FOOT 20
STAMINA 17
STRENGTH 15
TACKLING 2
TEAMWORK 14
TECHNIQUE 16
THROW INS 5
VERSATILITY 7
VISION 10
WORK RATE 15
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Ravanelli »

Correct managers for Belgian Second Division Nationality is Belgian unless stated otherwise.

Eendracht Aalst: Gilbert De Groote (27.09.1947)
Berchem: Rik Gotzen (no DoB, but looks at least 50 years old on the picture)
Beringen: Yves Baré (28.10.1938)
Boom: Harry De Roos (30.06.1945)
Patro Eisden: Jaak Dreesen (24.01.1934)
Diest: Gerhard Bergholtz (Dutch, 29.08.1939)
Harelbeke: Robert Claerhout (no DoB, but at least 45 years old)
Hasselt: Vince Briganti (05.01.1947)
Racing Mechelen: Albert Bers (11.12.1931)
Overpelt: Pierre Berx (20.01.1940)
STVV: Eric Vanlessen (24.07.1948)
Tongeren: Marcel Corens (15.08.1942)
Waterschei: Pierre Geys (29.04.1948)
Seraing: René Taelman (05.05.1945)
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Re: Season 1984/85 - Retro Update Team

Post by Cam F »

Amazing!You sure about Jaak Dreesen? There is one in db with dob - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jaak-dr ... iner/43991

Moved him from Tienen.

So cool, thank you and Alex today.

Done both.
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