November 2020 Data Update Feedback

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Post by hmongsuankularb »

good
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Post by Yahook »

hi guys,

Huge admiration for that massive project. However I think you missed a point regarding the game. Originally game maintain competition and dominance of elite clubs in a different way than that in your update. You put too much effort to players in big 5-6 leagues and downgraded the others. Original data base is a bit more flat in Europe in positive way. There was more nice players that time than right now.

There is no scrutiny on overall ratings, no general logic check. I saw players of English League 1-2 brackets listed as current internationals.
Look how that was manged originally: Iceland got bunch of nice players in their small clubs on small contracts but by odd chance can do upset in the game alike to real life and beat big European country. Same was with Greece, Sweden or Norway. Polish, Czech, Croatian or Serbian players can go to Western Europe and play big part of those teams. In Nov update that is mostly impossible as they are too weak.
In my opinion engine of the game thanks to nations, clubs & leagues ratings was playing more equal squads to similar outcome. But you rob the game in long term as weaker players will never compete now or as regen in the future with English, Spanish, French or German...

Originally and in real life it is league environment who shape player value and fame. Now you put too much focus to divide players where there is no logic. Argentina or Brazil got mega stars of football but they struggle with other South American countries. Because in real life and in the original game those players are more equal and only small details define difference. So before next update make a note and give us more fun. We players deserve to make impact not only with Messi, CR7, Haaland, Havertz or Werner, Pogba and Henderson. We want to make new stars of the game as well, buy them from other countries and make them big but in order to do that you have to upgrade players of other leagues, give them a boost. They should be more defined by Home and world reputation than by their stats in skills. I am not asking to make new Super Greeks but give us more players like Risp.

Solution? Add 3-4 points to everybody in every stat who play east of Italy & Germany in Europe.
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Post by Hyuga »

Hi Update Team,

I am in my 3. season in Turkey and promoted to Super League. I can transfer 14 foreign players but not let me to sign even 1. Is there any bug about newly promoted teams?
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Post by Dermotron »

Yahook wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:02 pm hi guys,
Hi Yahook, I think I get what your alluding to. There is an element of sacrificing International to the benefit of the clubs but there is quite an element of natural truth to that.

In terms of ODB versus now and the world of football in general, it's vastly different. So different to the point we have clubs in South America that have 12 or 13 for club reputation but realistically if you use club reputation as a guide for transfers, those clubs are only 8 or 9. I do miss (and a lot of others do) the spread of wealth in world football. There aren't any Celtic, Rangers, Olympiacos, Anderlecht, Boca, Rivers, Flamengo type clubs outside of the Euro Big 5 nowadays with Chinese clubs now in regression. The 2 big Ukrainian clubs have dropped massively since the war and the temporary Russian spending spree has stopped. 2 of the big 3 in Portugal still hold their own and Ajax have carved out a new niche where they are constantly well balanced financially. USA is slowly becoming the "next best" as lots of South American players are using it as a gateway to Europe. But that in itself show's where the South America clubs are going in general. They (and most non-Big 5 Euro clubs) can barely get a decent player signed to a pro contract before a European club has bought him to stick in the reserves/youth sides. The lack of top players between 23-32 is glaring compared to 20 years ago. Even the guys going home for some time with their favourite home club are doing so older and older. To the point they aren't any real benefit.

The difference between then and now is the top clubs are so financially ahead in real life it's very hard to replicate in game e.g. the scale is 1-20 but with a scale of 1-50 there would be currently teams that are in the 14-15 range that are only 25-28 in a 1-50 range and probably a gap of 10 points from those at the very top back to the next tier. That doesn't exist in the ODB.



There are however, plenty of ODB type legends to find in the November data update. Finding them is harder since you don't know them yet. It's one thing I think people find differently - there's a big difference playing a database for 6 months rather than 6 years. Another aspect which is hard to escape is you will find more people complain about the type of player you miss than those who enjoy signing them. I don't know, maybe it's a side effect that the knowledge base everyone has access to now is above what a professional scout have had access to 20 years ago (bar going to the games). There's also the element that most people who still play also know what makes a player incredibly good in game.

One thing I've been researching is how to make players worse, "bad players with high attributes" is a thread from the old forum. It's an element we lack that the ODB had in spades - Igor Tudor, Chevanton and it had players with CA170 but were awful (Raul wasn't awful but is underwhelming). Any players with CA170 is superstar in game in terms of performance.



A thread where we can identify as a community players that could play at a higher level might be a very nice solution e.g. defender X at Bosnian club Y could play at mid-table Bundesliga team Z and ensure the player has abilities to play at the higher level. Even 50 posts like that would add to the game in terms of it being a game and not completely a holiday-mode simulation.
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Post by Yahook »

Dermotron wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:27 am
Hi Yahook, I think I get what your alluding to. There is an element of sacrificing International to the benefit of the clubs but there is quite an element of natural truth to that.
OK, thank you for update. However I will tell you by one of examples:
Michal Kedziora in Nov 2020 update is shitty player both for his club and Poland international team. Currently with Dinamo Kiev.
He left Lech Poznan few years ago as club was lacking ambition. You made a player fit for 3 tier in England or 2 tier in Scotland.
Who may grow to reach relegation teams of EPL. In reality he is much stronger. A little bit behind Wan Bissaka of Man Utd.
Those are ratings from other games and real life experiences. And there is no logic to his international team involvements for Poland.
You are not expecting that player (your team creation) to play and supply Lewandowski. To be honest they both came from same club with few years apart.

Like I said players world wide can be given a boost but how to play it for whole game?

I can see a good solution in the engine of the game. Reputation. I mention that countries and leagues have their stats and you can give them a boost or a kick as you see fit. That will give you new scene in the game, little choice 1-10 means any change up and down is more significant.
Then you have even 3 for league rep (third world, developing and developed). Changes here can give you new world scene. Limiting Developed to 10 from 20 in ODB (my guess here) will ensure bigger domination.
Regarding players and transfers... Those above will determine value and likelihood of most of them.
Then you can play with underachieving players in big clubs. First of all you can apply unhappiness to likes of Havertz or Werner for example.
Then you can rob them of rep at home (they will loose support of the team, be isolated and perform less).
To make deep in form standing longer you hit players CA as it is taking more time to recover. Last sort of resort is to hit mental stats.
For those like Lukas Podolski, he sucked in clubs for years but was playing good for national team. So high rep in world rep and low current and home will deliver such outcome. Similar to Pogba, he is now more inconsistent in the club but still get caps for France.
Clubs can be sorted in similar fashion, you said that Ukraine big2 cannot spend but they play better than 20 years ago with more European football now. So you can boost club reputation and move league to 3rd world group to make closer real life translation.

Regarding South American and Iberic football - while you read poor attendances there for match day - those clubs moved on financially to different model - paid membership - which is hard to translate to our old game. Instead of gate income they should have season tickets sales for whole year.
I don't think this is possible in this game engine. Also I read that most of Nordic nations clubs pay lower wages but bigger game bonusses which is harder to make rule for Germany, Holland or Sweden.

What I said is that while I appreciate your huge and great work so far there is probably missing bit of overall scrutiny, logical check up.
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Post by Dermotron »

Yahook wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:32 pm
OK, thank you for update. However I will tell you by one of examples:
Michal Kedziora in Nov 2020 update is shitty player both for his club and Poland international team. Currently with Dinamo Kiev.
You can make suggestions for players in this thread or in the nation relevant threads here at any time. As OP states there was only 8 people updating the database the last time (thankfully we've a good few more for the next one) so thinking each player in the DB will get a review is just a bit shortsighted.

We'll never be able to fix suggestions with the wrong player names though :P
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Post by Max Force »

Zinho Vanheusden of Standard Liège, tore his ACL in November last year and will most likely return back on the pitch over 5 months.
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Post by Dermotron »

Max Force wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:45 pm Zinho Vanheusden of Standard Liège, tore his ACL in November last year and will most likely return back on the pitch over 5 months.
Thanks. You can post news like that here https://www.champman0102.net/viewforum.php?f=34
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Post by Max Force »

Dermotron wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:44 pm
Thanks. You can post news like that here https://www.champman0102.net/viewforum.php?f=34
Ah okay.
I thought that was only for transfers.

Thanks!
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Post by SteveHarle »

Chaps this thread is for feedback on the data update not tech support - please post issues in tech support :ok:
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Post by anderskofod »

My general experience with the db is that is amazing work!

I played a long save with Sheffield Wednesday and the top clubs become worse and worse but it took a long time before some of the clubs got really bad. But that is the same with the odb. It was a quite realistic experience.
One thing I was a bit annoyed by was that the Man. City and Man. United didn't fire their managers. Ole Gunnar had almost 10 years and didn't win anything and their best position was no.4.
Pep Guardiola also had a five years slump. I don't know if the patience from the board can be edited? I am sure that they wouldn't last that long irl.

Another side note is that I find Inter and Dortmund a bit overpowered. They seem to win the championship a bit to often and are top contenders for Champions League every year.
They are good indeed irl but some of the players could maybe take a minor downgrading. I will perhaps become more specific another time.

Thanks for great work.
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Post by Dermotron »

anderskofod wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:03 am My general experience with the db is that is amazing work!

I played a long save with Sheffield Wednesday and the top clubs become worse and worse but it took a long time before some of the clubs got really bad. But that is the same with the odb. It was a quite realistic experience.
One thing I was a bit annoyed by was that the Man. City and Man. United didn't fire their managers. Ole Gunnar had almost 10 years and didn't win anything and their best position was no.4.
Pep Guardiola also had a five years slump. I don't know if the patience from the board can be edited? I am sure that they wouldn't last that long irl.

Another side note is that I find Inter and Dortmund a bit overpowered. They seem to win the championship a bit to often and are top contenders for Champions League every year.
They are good indeed irl but some of the players could maybe take a minor downgrading. I will perhaps become more specific another time.

Thanks for great work.
Chairman Patience is definitely something under review

Dortmund are a tough one, their average attendance is massive so will be immensely rich within a couple of seasons. Possibly similar with Inter. Oddly Bayern Munich have always been thrifty no matter their settings - this could have been hardcoded perhaps.
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Post by anderskofod »

Dermotron wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:29 am
anderskofod wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:03 am My general experience with the db is that is amazing work!

I played a long save with Sheffield Wednesday and the top clubs become worse and worse but it took a long time before some of the clubs got really bad. But that is the same with the odb. It was a quite realistic experience.
One thing I was a bit annoyed by was that the Man. City and Man. United didn't fire their managers. Ole Gunnar had almost 10 years and didn't win anything and their best position was no.4.
Pep Guardiola also had a five years slump. I don't know if the patience from the board can be edited? I am sure that they wouldn't last that long irl.

Another side note is that I find Inter and Dortmund a bit overpowered. They seem to win the championship a bit to often and are top contenders for Champions League every year.
They are good indeed irl but some of the players could maybe take a minor downgrading. I will perhaps become more specific another time.

Thanks for great work.
Chairman Patience is definitely something under review

Dortmund are a tough one, their average attendance is massive so will be immensely rich within a couple of seasons. Possibly similar with Inter. Oddly Bayern Munich have always been thrifty no matter their settings - this could have been hardcoded perhaps.
But I think that Inter and Dortmund are a bit too good from the beginning. Both of them played in the CL final in the first season. It's more a matter of the level og the players current ability than a matter of the economy as I see it :)

Neven Subotic is german as 1. nationality and not croatian. He should be croatian.
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Post by Nikolayov »

Subotic is already done. BTW, he's Serbian as he has caps for Serbia IRL.
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Post by svt69 »

fabseon wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:44 pm
svt69 wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:41 pm Just thanks for your great job for this data update
I'm going to start with Auxerre, french league 2 team...
Are you sure?
Vive le HAC !!!!
:lol:
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Post by anderskofod »

Nikolayov wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:05 am Subotic is already done. BTW, he's Serbian as he has caps for Serbia IRL.
Of course he is. My bad.
I am playing with Duisburg now and 3 seasons in, Bayern haven't won the league yet.
Dortmund is too good. They won the treble in the third season. Their players must be a bit too good in my opinion.
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Post by Here2Win79 »

There doesn't seem to have been a consistent approach taken to training facilities for the main and (R) / youth teams. In Holland, the youth teams have training facilities 1-3 points below the main team despite them training in the same place, but it is at least consistent across all clubs that the Jong team has worse facilities.

Whilst in England (1) in some cases, eg Bournemouth, the U23s have better facilities than the parent club, (2) in some, eg Man City, slightly lower, and (3) in most Premier clubs, zero (random) v high score for parent, eg Man U, Arsenal.

In Spain, sometimes A and B are the same, sometimes B and C are the same, sometimes it's a sliding scale A to B to C.
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Post by TylerB2020 »

Hi guys!

Can someone tell me how I can get rid of the in-game background that comes with the October 2020 date update? And also how I could go about just having a plain black background if possible?

Many thanks!
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Post by Dermotron »

TylerB2020 wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:11 pm Hi guys!

Can someone tell me how I can get rid of the in-game background that comes with the October 2020 date update? And also how I could go about just having a plain black background if possible?

Many thanks!
https://www.champman0102.net/viewtopic. ... 431#p14431
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Post by Here2Win79 »

Here2Win79 wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:53 pm There doesn't seem to have been a consistent approach taken to training facilities for the main and (R) / youth teams. In Holland, the youth teams have training facilities 1-3 points below the main team despite them training in the same place, but it is at least consistent across all clubs that the Jong team has worse facilities.

Whilst in England (1) in some cases, eg Bournemouth, the U23s have better facilities than the parent club, (2) in some, eg Man City, slightly lower, and (3) in most Premier clubs, zero (random) v high score for parent, eg Man U, Arsenal.

In Spain, sometimes A and B are the same, sometimes B and C are the same, sometimes it's a sliding scale A to B to C.
I should have said, I'm happy to list all these out somewhere (on one thread though not in all the individual country threads) but I need your guiding principles on what you want, ie for me Ajax U21 facilities should have same score as Ajax Full, but maybe you guys want a gap (but it should be a consistent number of points from team to team) to help Ajax get better regens than Jong Ajax.
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Post by daveclayt »

Zakaria Aboukhlal plays for Morocco, not Netherlands, so his two nationalities should be swapped over.
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Post by zaralim58 »

wich patch works with this Data Update?

Is it possible maybe change the groupstage in the Champions League?
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Post by georged »

daveclayt wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:19 am Zakaria Aboukhlal plays for Morocco, not Netherlands, so his two nationalities should be swapped over.
Thanks amigo, but we'd rather have you giving this feedback in the scouting & research section for The Netherlands! :)
Me in particular, I don't really browse this thread this often to review this kind of feedback.
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Post by Mark »

zaralim58 wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:12 pm wich patch works with this Data Update?

Is it possible maybe change the groupstage in the Champions League?
Nick's patcher, or try the starter kit.

The answer is no to the second query.
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Post by zaralim58 »

Mark wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:32 pm
zaralim58 wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:12 pm wich patch works with this Data Update?

Is it possible maybe change the groupstage in the Champions League?
Nick's patcher, or try the starter kit.

The answer is no to the second query.
The game is not loading its cancel everytime by the start at initialisieren Game
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